Description:
Gwen Crawford talks about her life as a teacher and florist in Enid, Oklahoma, becoming a pilot at 50, and more.
Transcript:
Interviewee: Gwen Crawford
Interviewer: Female Interviewer
Interview Date: 11/10/2007
Interview Location: Saint Ann’s Retirement Community
File Name: Gwen Crawford 11-10-07.wav
Transcribed By: Katie WidmannTranscriber’s Note: Ms. Crawford pauses frequently, as though she is trying to catch her breath or is searching for her words.
Female Interviewer: I am at Saint Ann’s Retirement Community and I am privileged to talk to Gwen Crawford today. Hello.
Gwen Crawford: Good morning. It’s nice to be here. Thank you.
FI: You have a very interesting story. Let’s start with being born in 1914 in Enid, Oklahoma on December 18th. You were the first, second, third child?
GC: I was the only child. In the records that I found of my mom, I cost them $9.
[both laugh]
FI: Really? That’s the hospital?
GC: No, at home, which I think was a week’s salary for my father at that time.
FI: What did your father do in Enid?
GC: He was a salesman for Freeman Equipment at that time. Grandparents were both farmers, but they came to Enid after they were married.
FI: Where were the grandparents from?
GC: Outside of Okarche, originally. My granddad had a ranch in no-man’s-land. That was my mother’s father. My dad’s father ran in the race and had a farm on the Washita River.
FI: You’ve been written up in the Saint Ann’s News and Views, a short summary of your life, I guess. Tell me, what is no-man’s-land?
GC: The panhandle of Oklahoma before it became a state. Kansas was restricted how far they could come south. Texas was restricted how far north they could go. What was left over was useless, but it was attached to Oklahoma and called “No-Man’s-Land.” No man wanted it, as far as Kansas or Texas.
FI: What was life like in Enid, Oklahoma shortly after the turn of the 20th century, early 1900s?
GC: Life was very simple. It was not demanding, but happy. Our lives were centered around the church at that time. My biggest thrill was a wooden box that had been transferred into Enid, and Dad acquired that box. It was from a piano, an upright. He made me a playhouse. I still remember it. Life was very good. I went to grade school, junior high, high school, and Phillips University in Enid. I am definitely an Okie.
FI: Well, it says in school you were very involved in light opera.
GC: I sang at that time, and I had a scholarship at Phillips University. I thought I would go into music, but I ended up wanting to be a physician. I found out I did not have the ability to become one, so I went back into teaching. I went to Woodward, taught school and married and raised children for a while.
FI: How many children did you raise?
GC: I have three. I’ve raised three. I have a daughter in San Francisco, and a son that travels, and one who is in Oklahoma City. I have spent a lot of time in San Francisco. My parents bought property in Colorado in ’44. Dad paid $1,000 for 6 acres at 8,000 feet against the National Forest outside of Durango. We had very happy times in the summer and I still am in contact with close friends that we had through the summer years. They became like family because we were there every summer. I have close friends from there and California and Texas. All over. We had nothing to do in the summertime except play, and we were involved in the church activities there too. I remember when Mother taught a Sunday School in the late ‘40s and early ‘50s in a home. Gradually they got some land donated and gathered funds to build a tent, and now we have a thriving Baptist Church there. It was real fun to be involved through the years with the activities that summer people have.
FI: So your whole family could just take the summer and stay in Colorado?
GC: No. In the early years, the children had Campfire and Boy Scouts and that sort of activity. Church, summer school. We were able to visit and stay and then later years after they were all gone, my parents were dead and my husband, I spent the summers there some. I was also active in the flower shop for that 30 years after my husband and I had bought it. After he became deceased, I was the last active member and very involved, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
FI: Let’s back up to the Campfire – excuse me, the Girl Scout Camp in Woodward.
GC: In college, I had become – I had a scholarship and was involved in the program of sports. While I was still in college, the Campfire Girls came to me and wanted me to become involved. I had the first office after graduating in Enid, Oklahoma for the Campfire Girls. I conducted summer camps and at times, Girl Scouts came and wanted me to conduct their camp. I also did waterfront for the Future Farmers of America when they had summer camp. They needed someone to be involved with the water program and I would do that. Eventually, doing Girl Scout Camp in Woodward. I had, on Wednesday evening, we were doing square dancing. I was leading. The principal from Woodward came out to visit and said, “We need a teacher for music and art at the junior high. Would you come this next month and teach?” I was released from my obligations in Enid and went to Woodward and taught music and art. I met my husband, got married, raised my child, and that was the beginning of my happy times with the family for awhile.
FI: How did you meet your husband?
GC: Again, that was because I was teaching school. My husband was renting from one of the women involved with the schools. She introduced us and it became infatuation, and finally marriage. [laughs] It was fun. I loved the town of Woodward and the people. We were a western town. I had been there before during the dust storm, and things had really changed since the dust storm days. People nowadays can’t fathom what a dust storm is and we’ll never have them again, thank goodness. They were terrible at that time that I was visiting. After marriage and family, we moved from – he was working for McKesson and Robbins at that time. We moved from Woodward to Enid and ended up in Duncan. He was asked to go to Kansas City and decided that that was not to raise children in a large city, so my parents had the flower shop and were getting to the age that they didn’t want to work anymore. They came to Duncan and asked my husband if he would buy the flower shop from them. They made it very easy for us to take over their business, which we did. After they died and he died, then I was a florist. That’s when I got involved in the business, thoroughly enjoying it. As a hobby, took up flying and became involved with the women that were pilots, younger than I. I enjoyed the association and ended up flying some of the Powder Puff Races with them.
FI: How old were you when you began to fly?
GC: 50 years old. I picked it up as a hobby. It was fun and I had a phone call today from one of the pilots I flew with when we flew from Brownsville down through Mexico and on over to Costa Rica with the bombers. We’re still friends. This summer, I had a visit from the gal that I flew in ‘72 from California to Toms River, New Jersey, my first Powder Puff. She gave me the earrings that I have on today that have l airplanes in them.
FI: Little airplanes dangling.
GC: That was a friend from ’72 when we were flying. We’ve formed good friendships that last, and that’s nice. That’s why we’re here. We’re forming new friends, and I enjoy it very, very much.
FI: That’s nice. Any other flying stories you want to cover?
GC: We had many times, good associations. One time, the four of us had flew together so many years we were still on VFR, all but one. (Transcriber’s Note: VFR means the pilot can only fly in conditions that are clear enough to where the pilot can see where they are going.) Jan had gotten her instrument rating. (Transcriber’s Note: Instrument rating means the pilot can fly via instruments in conditions with poor visibility.) We were going to a convention in San Francisco from Oklahoma City, and as we were coming up from southern California, we could see what we thought was fog. In checking in, it turned out to be smoke. There were four of us in a small airplane. The only one that was able to fly in smoke with instrument rating was in the back seat. The four of us had to juggle from one seat to another until we finally got her into the correct seat. At 5,000 feet, that’s funny experience to move from one seat to another. We had good times flying.
We had an instructor and business manager of the Stillwater Airport, that back in the ‘50s, had started the Flying Farmer Organization. In the ‘30s and ‘40s, airplanes were very economical. The farmers could buy an airplane as cheap as they could buy a tractor. Those farmers that had huge acreages that needed overseeing bought airplanes and they and their wives became pilots because of the necessity of finding out where the cattle were. The wife would fly to market to pick up the groceries or whatever, or if there was an emergency for the farmer. Gradually the flying farmers became an international organization, and Hoyt, at that time the airport manager in Stillwater, was flying the President of Stillwater down to Costa Rica. At that time, A&M, which is an agriculture and mechanical college, had farms in Costa Rica where they were experimenting. (Transcriber’s Note: Oklahoma State University was previously called Oklahoma A&M.) Hoyt would fly the businesspeople from Stillwater, and gradually it turned into a flying farmer term. Each year, the flying farmers would gather in Brownsville and the route would be laid out, the hotels, the people to meet us, the food and the gas. All we had to do was fly from spot A to spot B. That’s what the Flying Farmers were that your dad would remember about them. I don’t suppose he was one, but he is he really knowledgeable about the flying people in his younger days, I’m sure.
FI: What did you fly? What plane did you fly?
GC: We flew the 182 Cessna when we were flying races. We rented airplanes. None of us could afford them, except people that really had money. They would buy or rent expensive planes because they knew the mileage. The majority of us flew them for fun. When you’re flying a race, the only thing you are doing is to judge the number of miles you can make per gallon of gas, and the speed that you’re going to fly, and the time. We smaller airplanes, from coast to coast, would have 8 airports to either land or fly by so that they could acknowledge that we were in the race and get our time. They still have those type of races today, but men are now allowed in some of the races. That’s why the Powder Puffs organization finally quit, because men were suing to be in with the Powder Puff and it got rather unwieldy for 200 planes to make 8 landings going across the United States to be fed, housed, and gassed. It was a complicated procedure when we landed. It took a lot of planning. It got unwieldy and too large, but it was great while it was happening.
FI: Very nice.
GC: Thank you.
FI: You have seven grandchildren. Is this correct?
GC: Mm-hmm. While I was a florist, I think we were closer to our families, as close as priests are today. We were there for our families at their joys and their sorrows and their celebrations. Some of my families I had through the years, and I finally got to the third generation of weddings in one family. I had known these people for so long. Many of our customers back from the ‘50s and ‘60s and ‘70s were very loyal. That is not true with merchandising today. People are looking for economy and easy to purchase, but in the days when they phoned us with their problems and we could solve them, they trusted us, and we knew we had their trust. It was a pleasure to have customers like that. They’re not that way anymore in any business. Loyalty is not a thing. Even the organizations and the churches are feeling the pinch of people too busy. They’re just not as devoted, I don’t think, financially and timewise, as our parents and my generation was. The church was the center, as I was growing up, of the social life.
FI: What was the name of the flower shop?
GC: My parents’ name S-O-U-T-H-E-R and my grandparents were called Mr. and Mrs. Souther. My mother answered the phone, “This is Souther Florist, Mrs. Souther speaking.” That’s not correct. My grandparents Souther came from Kentucky into Oklahoma and there, they were Souther. That was the way I remembered them. The town, Enid, had a Colonel Souther. My mother would say, “This is Souther Florist, Mrs. Souther speaking.”
FI: Really? Okay.
GC: I’ve gone by the name Souther all the way through college, and my name originally, my mother would call me Gwendolyn. If I hear that now, I know that that’s somebody that’s known me for 80 years. Everyone now says the shortened Gwen, and I acknowledge it very gratefully.
FI: So Gwen is fine with you?
GC: Oh, yes, please.
FI: Do you feel like you’re in trouble if you’re called Gwendolyn?
GC: I can remember that from way back, yes. When I taught school out of Phillips University, after two years in college, I was able to get a five-year certificate. It’s unknown today and that’s good. With a five-year certificate, I was able to go out and teach at country schools. Eight grades in one room at ten minutes a class. I was making $90 a month, and I was able to pay for my little coupe with a rumble seat and fur coat a set of books.
FI: Where was that school?
GC: North of Enid. I was getting $90 a month and that was big time.
FI: Where were you living? Were you staying at home?
GC: No, I was still living in Enid. It was north of Enid in a country school. It isn’t there anymore. Today, we don’t have grade schools. We have consolidated schools with bussing, so children are certainly much better educated now.
FI: I’ve heard yes, and I’ve heard disagreement on that too.
GC: Well, it’s true in the country schools. The first and second graders would hear the seventh and eighth graders when they were discussing things. They were pretty well rounded out with education, not as thoroughly as they are now maybe, but they got by very well.
FI: Did you have any big boys in your class that were bigger than you? Did you find discipline pretty doable?
GC: I had one family. The big boy, I endured. His little second grader would get into trouble and I would have to chastise him, but the big boy later got in trouble with the police. He came to me instead of his parents, so I feel like I did have a good influence somewhere. Good feelings. One of the women who had been in my class came to work for me in my flower shop. I didn’t recognize her and I didn’t recognize the name, being married. One day she brought my report card that I had written for her in school to the flower shop and showed it to me. We both had some good laughs over that. Thank goodness I had given her good grades.
FI: I’m glad that worked out. You just taught for the two years?
GC: Yes. Then I went back and finished college and was able to get a scholarship so I could go back and finish easily.
FI: What made you think that medical school was not for you?
GC: I couldn’t remember and learn all of the difficult things that had to be retained, and I had a very close friend that I was going with. We were friends, and we studied together. She was so brilliant and so adapted to what she wanted to do and became a doctor. I realized that wasn’t for me. I wasn’t as invested in the life as she was.
FI: Did you know of any other female doctors at that time?
GC: Pardon?
FI: Did you know of any other female doctors at that time?
GC: No. She was the only one that I knew at that time. (unintelligible) Back in the late ‘30s and early ‘40s. She became a very successful physician, but it wasn’t for me and I could realize that.
FI: That’s good.
GC: I enjoyed the music and I was involved in that quite a few years, and thoroughly and still enjoy listening, not participating.
FI: You sang, and you played as well?
GC: At one time.
FI: What music did you sing?
GC: We had an opera teacher in music in Enid, and in high school. My high school teacher had us do Gilbert and Sullivan. (Transcriber’s Note: Gilbert and Sullivan were a Victorian era operatic duo.) I could remember being in “The Pirates of Penzance.” I was a gypsy leader there. That instilled early my interest and attitudes toward opera and getting into college, we had a professor there that had a friend in Enid that had money that had built an opera stage in our little town. In summer, locals at Phillips University would put on summer operas and we would import lead singers from Kansas City or Chicago. I was only in the chorus, but it was easy to begin to love that type of music. That was how I was involved in it.
FI: That’s great that you had cultural activity of that sort in your small town.
GC: I don’t think it’s there anymore. We go through different phases in small towns, and now it’s more cultivating the Western feeling in their parades and that type of thing now, which is good. We are a Western community and a wheat community. I can remember when we’d lift up in our airplanes from Oklahoma City, we could see Enid because of the large wheat elevators. At one time, Enid had more wheat elevators than anyplace in the United States. There was one place in Russia that had more. We’re not the wheat farming community now that we were then, but at one time our whole area was very flat. We could see wheat wherever we looked, and it was profitable then. It changes with time. Even the cotton farmers now are giving up. It’s a tough life. We have to admire the few that do stay on the farms, but it is a declining field. Equipment is so much, and the young farmers have to really have a background of farming and they have to have a background of financing if they’re going to be able to continue.
FI: As a small farmer?
GC: Mm-hmm
FI: You lived in Enid up until two or three years ago?
GC: Yes. After I had retired, my daughter was a nurse in San Francisco, and she graduated from the OU medical school. She had one vision, and that was to get to San Francisco. We had, at that time, a Champlain refinery of oil and gas in Enid, Oklahoma. Their son was sent to Berkeley. When he came home that first Christmas from being in college at Berkeley, there were about 15 or 20 children in my living room listening to their first college reunion. He was talking about how wonderful Berkeley was to these Okie kids that had never heard of Berkeley in California. He painted such a beautiful vision that four of them seated on that floor that Christmas that ended up in San Francisco together. They lived in this brick mansion and had different jobs, different things they wanted to do. Deanna wanted to go into nursing, so I went with her when we went to San Francisco for her to interview. I’ve been going to San Francisco ever since. In my later years, I was able to spend more time because my son had also gotten into computers and he was in San Francisco living in Mill Valley. I had a car to go from Noe Valley in San Francisco to Mill Valley across the Golden Gate Bridge. I spent considerable time there, and still do. My summer home is in Colorado, so I haven’t spent in the last few years all of my time in Enid, Oklahoma, but it is, and was, home.
FI: Your daughter?
GC: She’s still in San Francisco with family.
FI: And she does?
GC: She’s retired now. She has a home there in San Francisco, and I have my area with a walk-in shower room because I can’t step up and over into a tub anymore. That’s all we have here are showers so we can walk in.
FI: That’s a nice improvement with accessibility. Did you say somebody graduated from med school?
GC: My daughter graduated from nursing school from OU medical school. No, I graduated from Phillips University with a Bachelor of Arts degree in teaching.
FI: You’ve made new friends here and you’re active in bridge and what else does the write-up say about you?
GC: Tonight I’ll play canasta. Tomorrow night I’ll play Mexican train. That’s a domino game. I’ll play bridge Tuesday. I play something every night, and I have different groups of friends that I play with on different nights.
FI: It’s quite a social network.
GC: Well, this is the place for it. We came here because we’re retired and we enjoy each other. It’s very rewarding. Everyone here has an interesting background. You may have touched a few, but as they walk down the hall, I can tell you so many interesting things about different people here. To be here is an accomplishment. We’re survivors, and if we are here, we have the ability to financially be here. We have the ability to be able to socialize. It’s a great place to be.
FI: That’s a great outlook. How did you choose this place?
GC: My daughter went to the places available in Enid. She had a cousin here who had been looking for his mother a place. We wanted in this particular area because I have relatives around and this was the most logical financially and awareness of what was going on in a beautiful building, and the people that are employed here. It was a bonus to me. I like it here, and on my birthday last year, I had 12 relatives for lunch. Nieces and two lovely, very close daughter-in-laws, ex-daughter-in-laws and their family. We’ve been very close. I spent the last Mother’s Day for years with my two ex-daughter-in-laws and their families. When I’m in San Francisco, I’m with another group. My husband had three brothers, two brothers and a sister, here. My sister-in-law is now in assisted living. She had four children, so her children and grandchildren, a lot of them are around here. I have an extended family available if I need them.
FI: You’ve enjoyed being an Oklahoma resident, even though you’ve lived other places too. Are you happy?
GC: I’ve had an address in California and Colorado.
FI: That’s all good, huh?
GC: Yes. I enjoyed San Francisco and I could have lived there if I wanted to, but it’s too fast a pace for me. My daughter and her friends are just involved in too many things. I like a relaxed attitude and my own room to do what I want, when I want here. I don’t have to please anyone else. I love my family, but I like my independence also. I’m very content.
FI: Is there anything else that we didn’t cover? Well, there’s a lot we didn’t cover. Is there anything else you’d like to add to your story?
GC: I think we pretty well covered everything. You’ve been very kind. Thank you.
FI: It’s been very interesting talking to you.
GC: Like I said, everyone here has an interesting life and background. Maybe some haven’t acquired as many memories as I have and different attitudes. When I was in the flower shop, I was FTD. (Transcriber’s Note: FTD is a floral company that florists can join as members.) The first year they started out of the country conventions, I was able to go and with FTD, we had been in all continents and Australia, South America, and about 82 countries. I have lived in Greece for a couple of years.
FI: Wait a minute. When was that? Why did you live in Greece for a couple of years?
GC: [pause]
FI: Is this an edit moment? What does that mean?
GC: After my husband died, I had a second marriage and he was attached to Tinker. We went to Greece for a couple of years, knowing that if we were out of the country, we could be together and enjoy it when we came back to the United States. With family, we could not. We enjoyed it while we were there, and I made lovely, lovely friends and got to tour the chapel there. We got tour the Holy Land and through friends, I was able to do Lebanon several times before the wars, two tours there. We did the Middle East. I’ve been able to do a lot of traveling, which was very enjoyable. I made a lot of contacts that I love reviewing and being with, but with all that, I’m very happy to be here with good memories. I’m content to be here.
FI: All right. Gwen Crawford, thanks for talking.
GC: I enjoyed being here. I probably said a lot that I wish I hadn’t. Well, I mean I talk too much.
FI: Oh, not at all. Not at all. [paper rustling] Were you just taking a moment for yourself, or were you asking him to cut something out?
GC: It’s alright. I don’t talk about my second marriage here. It isn’t important, but it was important because I was able to live outside of Athens and watched Onassis and his wife come into the bay. We would go down and watch his yacht come in, and all around that little bay were his men and their automobiles. He was well-guarded. It was fun to watch it. That was funny. He was well-known. I’ve had an interesting life, but again I say I am glad to be here at this time. Thank you.
FI: That’s good. Let’s get our picture.
End of interview.